Integrity, Values and Happiness

After reading the story, I believe the young woman had the most integrity, as she believed that her fiance might be dying so she did what she had to do in order to save him. PLUS–she ultimately told him the truth about what she had to do in order to save him. That, to me, holds the most integrity.

I think the Captain had the least integrity because he made a selfish request from the woman knowing he was engaged.

Still Life in Buenos Airess last blog post..Montevideo, Uruguay

Hi Still Life,

Thank you for participating. The Captain had just survived a shipwreck and he was in the middle of nowhere. Am not sure if the request he made was so bad. I think the Captain has the highest integrity since he kept his every word – while risking his life. He even offered to take care of the lady in the end.

The lover has the least integrity. He had no consideration for all that the lady and the Captain had gone through to find him.

The lady I think did what she needed to do.

Hi Maya,

We don’t know what would have happened if the story had continued. Probably, once young man’s shock wore off, he might be able to see things differently. He was safe, just on a different island. He had no way of knowing what went into her mind.

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Hi Maya,
Well, this is an interesting story and question!

I think the lady has the most integrity. She is doing something, that although maybe not morally correct, she does for the right reasons. I think the captain lacks integrity because of his request to sleep with her. I am torn as to who has the least integrity. I’m leaning toward the fiance, but I think the captain is pretty close to being in the same boat also. When I think of integrity, I think of moral values. The first one to break this, in my opinion, is the captain – with his request. In fact, based on the way the story ends, I wonder if the captain had ulterior motives…thinking this might lead to something if the fiance rejected the lady.

After reading the other responses, my thoughts on this remain the same.

Lances last blog post..Don’t Worry, Be Happy

Oh no. These games always freak me out. But, I’m going to play along and go with my gut. Then I’ll read the other comments.

The Captain – the b*stard. Just fix the darn boat. Give with your heart, not with your dick.

The Boyfriend – get over it! You’d still be on this island all by yourself. Your girlfriend did what she had to do to rescue you and be with you. It was a single instance of sex, and I can guarantee, you jerk, she DID NOT enjoy it.

The Girlfriend – dump both of them, honey. You did what you had to do, and it was just sex (boy, people are so puritanical about sex). Clearly neither men has respect for women. Stand on your own two feet. You don’t need men like this. Once you get off the wretched islands, you will be a better person for standing on your own, and trust me, the ideal man will appear.

Urban Panthers last blog post..The struggle

Okay, now I have read the comments.

@Maya – why is just being shipwrecked, and worried about his safety, an excuse for demanding sex in payment for fixing the boat? And why was the boyfriend mad at his girlfriend. He should have pounded the crap out the Captain for putting his girlfriend in such a dilemna. Nope, still have to stick to my thoughts that neither man has the least bit of respect for women.

@Avani – I agree, that after the initial shock wore off, the boyfriend would probably be fine. Putting myself in his shoes, I would probably be horrified, no I WOULD BE horrified, but then would calm down and understand why my partner had done what they did.

Urban Panthers last blog post..The struggle

The girl = Most integrity. She did what she had to do.

The captain = Least integrity. Jerk. Just fix the boat, A-hole.

The boy = GET OVER IT – she was trying to get back to YOU.

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The person who had the most integrity was the lady. She loved her fiance’ so much that she was willing to risk death by going on a perilous trip. And she willed herself to do something that she didn’t want to do – which is, sleep with the captain. All this because she stayed true to her love.

The person who had the least integrity was the fiance’. He has no recognition of the risks that the lady took, and the challenges she overcome just so she could find him and be with him. Instead, he lives in a self-absorbed universe and hides behind fake morality. He decides that sleeping with someone amounts to betrayal of love, in spite of all evidence showing that the act was in fact out of love for HIM. He has no eyes to see the deep love that the lady has for him. So in many ways it is good riddance that he broke up with her. He didn’t deserve her anyways.

The captain, I’d say was not all that terrible integrity-wise. He was risking his life, so it is natural to expect something in return. And it was not like he was making up the risks; he initially did not want to go at all, and only later did he offer to go. He did put the lady in a spot by asking to sleep with her (and he knew it) – so he loses some points on that count. And he loses several more points in the end – when he puts an arm around the lady and says he’ll be there for her. Cut it out man – you know she didn’t do it with you out of love. He doesn’t deserve her either.

The old man gets a few points for offering some decent advice.

Ramkumar

p.s. – thanks for a very intriguing post! I am a fan of your blog. Keep writing!

Ok, having read the comments, I am surprised that most people think the Captain was an A-hole/b***t**d etc. I agree with Maya that he has more integrity than that and doesn’t deserve the criticism.

It is problematic, in my opinion to use “moral values” to judge other people. Who decided that having consensual sex (remember, the Captain didn’t force the woman to sleep with him, it was just quid pro quo) with anyone other than the person you are engaged to, is wrong or immoral? “Civilized” society did. But morality in the real world has to be much more fluid than a pre-written set of rules. Such pre-written morals (and judgements based on them), are IMO the source of many of the problems we see in the world..

On a day-to-day basis in society, people try to live by societal norms. But in the situation in the story above, things have boiled down to the basics. it is a life-or-death situation; these folks may never make it back to civilization. So in that situation, is it surprising to see societal norms break down? No. Is it wrong to expect some temporary pleasure as a reward for risking one’s life? No.

My argument is this – if people are sincere (as the lady and the captain were) that is what should count. Not the perceived morality of their actions, based on rules that we have created. It is good for everyone of us to live by a certain set of moral principles that we believe in; but it is problematic to expect others to live by those same set of principles and judge them negatively if they don’t.

Ok, I’ve said waay too much!

Ramkumars last blog post..Back on track (well, almost)

Hi Avani,

It is interesting that you bring in suppositions – Once we start going on this route there is no end to the discussion.
I agree with you – the lover might change his reaction after it sinks in. But for some reason, I tend to give the Captain a soft corner. 20 years later, if the Captain and the lady are married and happy …?

Hi Urban Panther – you are very convincing. You could convert some people who are not so sure of themselves. But read Ramkumar’s response above. I feel quite the way he feels

Writer-Dad ,

I really wonder if the Captain was such a jerk. Would he have come back and vowed to take care of the lady later?

Hi Ram,
Thank you for making this discussion really interesting. ou have explained your points really well. Wow – you are convincing. I have to agree that I do not think the Captain was so bad – thinking from his perspective really changes the whole argument, doesn’t it???

Mayas last blog post..Are you a storyteller? What is your story?

I actually think that the captain has the most integrity and the lover the least. The captain just asked what he wanted and then delivered as promised. He just offered her an option which she accepted. Also, after the lover left her he offered his suport to her.
I am totally not impressed with the lover. He just waited and did not take any action and when his lover actually managed to get to him after risking her life he was hard and inflexible, failling to understand that she did the best she could under such extraordinary circumstances. I am dying to read the comments of the other participants.

Hi Lance,
Sorry I missed you earlier!
A big factor in responding to this story is all about how we define integrity, I think.
Integrity is formally defined as “being-whole” – and who defines what “being-whole” means?
Look at Cristina’s response. She seems very convinced with her decision.

Hi Cristina,
There is quite a bit of opposition for you here
It is amazing how we all pay emphasis to very very different facts in the story!

Mayas last blog post..Are you a storyteller? What is your story?

Hi Maya,
Indeed, most of the participants seem to have a very different view on things. The funny part is that reading their comments just made me even more sure of my opinion. They all seem to think that the captain is a total jurk, who took advantage of the lady. In my book he just stated his wished loud and clear and gave her a choice. I would have considered him a jurk if he wouldn’t have taken her to her lover after she slept with him. Loved your exercise!

I think the captain has the least integrity since he took advantage of the fact that the lady had no other option for finding her lover than getting the boat fixed, and he was the only one who could fix it (the captain makes me think of a loan shark). The lady had the most integrity since she thought she was doing what she had to do in order to get back together with her fiance. The fiance needs to revise his views of wrong and right, the world is not black and white.

Maya,

Interesting challenge, particularly with respect to integrity. If integrity is, “perceived consistency of actions, values, methods, measures and principles,” I don’t know how this story supports integrity for the Captain. There’s no clear relationship in the risk of going to sea again and the reward of having sex with the lady. In fact, he has a moral and legal obligation to maintain the health and welfare of everyone he’s carried for pay (for carriage)–including, of course, her intended–so the Captain’s obligated to search for him by the principles of his command. That he does this in a conditional context demonstrates his lack of integrity.

Whether the Lady was operating with integrity is more difficult absent a universal set of principles around sex (unlike the “law of the sea,” whether she’s encumbered by a strict religious framework or has the benefit of a more permissive moral code determines whether she is acting consistently with her values and principles, and we don’t really know what those are. However, her intended’s reaction suggests that, at the very least, his moral framework is somewhat more rigid than hers. Her reaction implies a certain measure of awareness that she’s violated her principles as well, so from a technical standpoint, her actions didn’t demonstrate integrity.

So, both the Captain and the Lady violated a technical definition of integrity. But in my view, the Captain’s violation was was immoral while the Lady was moral. He had an obligation to his passengers which he forsook. She had a higher obligation to her love, which she upheld.

I think the old man who said follow your heart….least would be captain.

Well after reading the comments, no I wouldn’t change my pick. He’s the only one who didn’t do anything but give good advice to the lady.
And not knowing any of the particulars as far as views and values. You can’t really judge the rest properly only suppose if they were something.

Diane

Oh, By the way, Thanks! That was fun!

Hi Maya and others.

I agree that the fiance lacked integrity for his rejection of his beloved, but I still feel that the Captain was the most lacking. The Captain violated rules of chivalry and (as David pointed out), he was paid to care for the people on the ship. He betrayed his professional expectations, while the fiance was momentarily shocked and felt betrayed.

Very fun game, Maya!

Still Life in Buenos Airess last blog post..Montevideo, Uruguay

Hi Maya. It was REALLY hard to not read the other comments! It’s my feeling that the fiance has the least integrity because he didn’t recognize the effort his fiance made to find him. She sacrificed her own integrity. And I would say on that note that she had the greatest integrity for being willing to do what it would take to be reunited with her fiance again. I’m not too thrilled with the captain’s behaviour though, but he did view taking her out again as putting himself into the face of death again! That has to speak for something.

I’m curious though about how these two lovers ended up in separate boats

Davinas last blog post..Small Steps To Empower Your Attitude

Hi Maya This is a tough one – I had to go away and come back to it after a couple of days. I think the girl has the most integrity – she was honest about what her intentions were all along.

The Captain has the least integrity because he wasn’t honest. He took advantage of a situation to get what he wanted.

Hi Mare – Yes, the fiance does need to review his views, doesn’t he?

Hi David – Your analysis is very thorough. I especially like the way you do a relative analysis between the Captain and the lady. So much of life is relative, isn’t it – relative with respect to other people and relative with respect to time – the past, present and the future …

Diane, Still Life – Thank you very much – and thank you for your spirit and participation!

Hi davina, I take it you have not watched the movie Titanic? I wanted to spare you the drama – hence skipped the details of how they landed in separate boats – yes, the painting episode occurred too . Love your humor!!

Hi Cath,
Thanks for your tweet. You are certainly with the majority here

Mayas last blog post..Integrity, Values and Happiness

Easy as to who as the most integrity. The woman who did what it took to save her fiance. What’s a bit of sex to save someone’s life? It’s a minor compromise for the greater good. I’m having trouble deciding who is the person with the least integrity as the captain took advantage of the woman’s predicament, which is low. But then he did take her out to get the fiance, which means he stuck to his word. The fiance meanwhile acted holier than thou and judged the woman he was supposed to love when she was really just trying to save him. So, with more thought the fiance probably has the least integrity – just.

Great exercise. Fun, fun, fun *claps hands*

Kelly

I think I’m going to play devil’s advocate here.

The fiance obviously holds a strict moral compass. In the absence of information on what he may or may not have attempted to get to her, I point out that he reacted with his own compass and belief system without compromise. Makes him an unforgiving jerk in my book, but she violated her morals (with good intentions), the captain violated standard morals to demand what he did, and the lover refused to violate his.

When you are done throwing rotten fruit at me, I just thought I’d offer another view.

B J Keltzs last blog post..Getting a Life Back (or at least cleaning it up)

If you define integrity as: firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : INCORRUPTIBILITY, as Webster’s does, then I would say:

The old man has the most integrity. He gave moral advice that he believed in and tried to help the distraught girl.

The girl has the least integrity, not because she chose to sleep with the captain, but because she agonized over the decision, which was in obvious contradiction to her personal moral code.

And LOL @ Panther, I love it!

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Hi All,

I just watched Stars Wars last night and I thought of all of you and this post. So the correlation I saw was that the perspective of most here is the exact perspective of Darth Vader’s making? Out of love and fear of death he chose the dark side? To gain the power over death he thought so he could save his love from death? Yet his choice went against the light? Hmmmmm……Integrity? I love epics with valuable deep lessons!

Diane,
Truly appreciate you bringing the Star Wars lesson! Now you make me rethink everything, all over again

Mayas last blog post..Integrity, Values and Happiness

Wow, from a Christian perspective (i.e. using the rules gained from reading of the Bible) it’s pretty easy to see who of the three has integrity and who does not. I’m not saying this to condemn anyone else’s opinions here (everyone has their own perspectives) but I feel pretty blessed to have a good rooting to make these determinations easily!

1. The captain
2. The lady
3. The fiancee

The captain kept his word – he could have so easily changed his mind.
The lady told her man about what she did! she could have conveniently ignored
The dude was not bad but ….. i gotta put someone at 3!!

Tickled By Lifes last blog post..Wassup – 4: Tickled by Life Newsletter

After reading and thinking more, i would put the lady at the bottom
so here is my revised ranking

1. Captain
2. Dude
3. Lady

Tickled By Lifes last blog post..Wassup – 4: Tickled by Life Newsletter

Ok, here’s the deal – Why is the lady in a mad rush to go find her lover? It’s not her five-year old child that’s lost on another island, it’s a grown man! The captain has just managed to save some lives by successfully getting them onto the island, and now he has to sail out again!? Wait for a while, let the captain rest, and soon enough, he might want to get out of the island too. Putting his life in jeopardy for your lover is not what i would call ideal, it would just be very selfish. The other survivor, IMHO, should have said, “use your brain my dear, use your brain”. The heart doesn’t always tell you what’s right to do, especially under stress.

So, upon much persuasion, the captain sets his conditions, immoral as it may sound, he’s willing to risk his life in exchange for it. To all who disagree with this, if the roles were reversed, would it be okay!? i.e., damsel in distress on another island, and the dude has to have sex with the female captain in order to rescue her. Something to think about…

Now the dude on the other island, well, he’s just despicable and terribly insecure. Just leave him there and go. LOL!
(of course, there’s the whole discussion of sex vs love and what all that means, but that’s for some other time.)

So, I’d say –
Most Integrity – Captain
Least Integrity – Dude on the island

The lady falls in between – she thought her love was more important than the security of her fellow survivors, IMHO.

I’d love to hear your differing points of view.

Vinay,
You made my day! I said the same thing but in a much simpler way and although I am pretty sure of my opinions in general I must say that after reading tons of comments saying pretty much the opposite I started to doubt myself a tiny little bit. Very cool, thank you. Have a great week.

The responses to this post have been most exciting! Thank you all so much for participating. I have learnt so much from the interaction here – about myself especially, that I think I should respond in a new post – coming up by the end of this week.
Thank you all so much!

You’ve posed very tough questions here. I think that the Captain has integrity because he kept to his word. He sent the lady back to rescue the lover. As for the lady, I think she is just being realistic about her choices. Is it a matter of integrity by betraying the love from her lover? I don’t know. As for the lover, I wouldn’t classify him as having no integrity either. I think he just does not love the lady very much.

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[...] recent post about integrity was an amazing learning experience for me. I am truly grateful to everyone that participated in [...]

hi maya,
interesting exercise…
i guess my opinions remain the same after reading the comments too..

i think the lady had the most integrity. she wanted to see her lover, that was all that mattered to her… and she followed her heart.

it could be argued that if the captain hadn’t asked the lady to sleep with him, then she wouldn’t be in that predicament and la-la-la… but the fact is that he did ask, and she agreed, and u cant change that.. and the fact is that the captain does comfort (try to, atleast) the lady and give her support when her lover acts all holier-than-thou and rejects her… which i think, speaks volumes for the kind of man the captain really is…

which leaves us with the lover, who really had nothing to boo-hoo about.. i mean, if he was really distraught, he should have challenged the captain to a duel (someone commented about chivalry above )or something and settled it right there… and gone on to live with his lady… but then, he wasn’t that kind of man, was he?

Hi Pratheek,
You are with the majority here!
I am a little more forgiving of the Captian I think

Thank you for sharing your opinion:)

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